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  • California Trackday Lawsuit - Interesting read...

    Any of you see this: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/could-this-lawsuit-affect-track-days-and-club-racing?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_c ampaign=boosted-posts|tpfn&utm_content=common-tread-news&utm_term=could-this-lawsuit-affect-track-days-and-club-racing-post-033018-|tpfn

    I'm consistently confounded by individuals that participate in on track events, injure THEMSELVES, and then attempt to transfer blame. I accept that I could be injured, or worse, even due to the actions of others. If you can't accept that risk, you shouldn't be on track at all.

    Discuss...

  • #2
    You're coming to the track many times this year. Discuss.
    2004 BMW R1100SA(street/Deer Spear)
    2008 Suzuki SV650 (track\race CCS AM#259)

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Tammy View Post
      You're coming to the track many times this year. Discuss.
      Define "many". But yes I will be riding the track...

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      • #4
        Kim should be taken out behind the woodshed.
        1000cc of testosterone

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        • #5
          After watching that video, it's pretty clear he would have crashed in the little gully anyways, even if the sandbags weren't there.
          You should see me in a headsock !

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          • #6
            Almost every motorcycle forum is talking about this.

            At first I and many others were on the side of the track day org. (Keigwins) I had assumed the guy, a typical Panigale rider with a dangerous lack of skill and a bike that's way faster than he has any business being on, blew a turn and rode off until he hit something. But a lot of people saw the video and opinions changed. There was a sandbag right at the edge of the track in a place where there should be runoff area. Not good.

            The case is complicated by the fact that the sandbags were discussed at the morning meeting, that the crasher did not attend. However, that doesn't absolve the org or track of responsibility. It doesn't make it ok to place sandbags right at the edge of the track. It's not like riders are going to say "Well, I was going to crash at turn 5 until I heard about the sandbags. I'll pick a different turn to crash in!"

            There is a lot of ancillary information about the case, the crasher is Daniel Kim, who owns a startup to design enclosed self balancing motorcycles. His bike was set up for data acquisition. There is some speculation the suit was filed because his startup needs money. After all, a few broken bones and rehab time does not cost 20 million dollars.

            As big of a dirtball as Daniel Kim appears to be, everyone has to consider that a sandbag was placed right next to the track in a runoff area. Regardless of the liability waiver he signed, Kim is probably going to win this case and Keigwins is probably going out of business.

            I love our track day providers and I wouldn't want any of them to have to deal with this crap. Right now all orgs should be watching this case and thinking about ways to protect themselves. One idea is to add a track specific liability waiver to be signed along with their general waiver. The waiver could specifically mention the sandbags at turn 5, and riders could sign off on the risk. Waiver like that could be written for many tracks, just look at the areas were people get hurt the most.
            John K - Appleton

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            • #7
              Rider's meeting are there for a reason. If you miss the meeting, contact the track officials and apologize for missing the meeting and ask what you missed AND if you can still be allowed to ride.
              This is why it is VITAL to attend these meetings.

              This suit will only push orgs to do a Roll Call at riders meetings and possible have a signature that you attended the specific meeting.

              If I signed all the waivers - went off track and hit a tree, I could sue and claim that the tree should have been removed as it's a safety issue that the track org & track owner should have addressed. It is a similar issue as this Kim guy.
              If I enter the track and I identify a safety issue ANYWHERE on (or even off the track), I feel I have the responsibility to report the unsafe condition to the track officials immediately - and I have!

              I also identified an issue at a trackday where I was just a spectator. The org did not have a staffer/volunteer at track entry point (silo at BHR) to check the rider for proper group membership and keep a novice from entering the track during an advanced session (or vice versa). I just walked up and started to check people to ensure this safety issue was addressed for my friends (and all riders) to be safe.
              By noon, the 'officials' got wind of what I was doing and wanted to speak to me - asap!
              They wanted to know what I was doing, why and who said that I should be doing that!
              They grilled me hard. I was sweating, thinking a lifetime ban was coming....

              Turns out, they thanked me and rewarded me with a trackday - any date, any track.

              If you see something unsafe - say something. If you feel the risk exceeds your level of comfort, stop.


              WELCOME TO WiR - Enjoy

              Thank You to my personal, CCS Racing sponsors: WiRiders.com, Cycle Gear, TrackGraphix.com

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              • #8
                Sooooo if I run wide and crash at BFR because of the massive gator backs designed for CARS can I sue?

                Fuck that shit. Be an adult. The paper says there are risks and it is unreasonable to require them to outline every goddamn risk you may face at the track. Assess the damn risks like every adult should and decide from there.

                Few examples would be soggy runoff after night rain, pothole created by cars consistently running a bit off track, turtles, deer, a leaf that falls mid session.

                After reading all this asshole has done I have to say the video was very satisfying to watch.
                Last edited by Tammy; 04-02-2018, 03:33 PM.
                2004 BMW R1100SA(street/Deer Spear)
                2008 Suzuki SV650 (track\race CCS AM#259)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by derekcb View Post

                  Define "many". But yes I will be riding the track...
                  Many=Every day I am riding.
                  2004 BMW R1100SA(street/Deer Spear)
                  2008 Suzuki SV650 (track\race CCS AM#259)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    And what a lot of people don't know is between T5 and T6 at Laguna theres a drain system with grates in the ground 5' from the gators. They had the sand bags in FRONT of them since theres heavy erosion there during the rainy season. Dan "No Talent" Kim was going down hard either way. You can see the erosion gullys after where the bags were. Hell his rear tire was already coming off the ground when he hit them. As a lot of people in other forums also are thinking, he wants the money for his little start up and what a better way to try to get it is to sue.

                    Any bets this clown gets black balled now from any trackday org and maybe ever race orgs?

                    I've raced at some sketchy tracks. Been at some where some racers decided NOT to run. Hell raced at Road Atlanta BEFORE they did the safety mods that removed Gravity Cavity and moved some walls back. Hell even Watkins Glen T5 was insanely dangerous before they put the keyhole in. Anyone here, other than me, remember using the Kink itself at Road America before they put the keyhole in for bike? Real fun to lay it over in 4th through there with that dip in the apex with maybe 15' of runoff before the wall. CCS was the last 2 wheeled race org to use it.
                    Wait a minute. Look at those shifty eyes. That devious half-smile. Those kazoo-kissed lips.

                    CCS # 14 EX
                    ASRA # 214 EX
                    RP Motorsports, Suomy Helmets

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tammy View Post
                      Sooooo if I run wide and crash at BFR because of the massive gator backs designed for CARS can I sue?.
                      I was thinking this exact thing. Those things make sand bags look like a slight inconvenience. This is also why I don't really want to try Daytona. I hate the walls.

                      Originally posted by Skipper View Post
                      And what a lot of people don't know is between T5 and T6 at Laguna theres a drain system with grates in the ground 5' from the gators. They had the sand bags in FRONT of them since theres heavy erosion there during the rainy season. Dan "No Talent" Kim was going down hard either way. You can see the erosion gullys after where the bags were. Hell his rear tire was already coming off the ground when he hit them. As a lot of people in other forums also are thinking, he wants the money for his little start up and what a better way to try to get it is to sue.

                      Any bets this clown gets black balled now from any trackday org and maybe ever race orgs?

                      I've raced at some sketchy tracks. Been at some where some racers decided NOT to run. Hell raced at Road Atlanta BEFORE they did the safety mods that removed Gravity Cavity and moved some walls back. Hell even Watkins Glen T5 was insanely dangerous before they put the keyhole in. Anyone here, other than me, remember using the Kink itself at Road America before they put the keyhole in for bike? Real fun to lay it over in 4th through there with that dip in the apex with maybe 15' of runoff before the wall. CCS was the last 2 wheeled race org to use it.
                      I had a friend go down there back in 1993 or so. He would have died if it weren't for his unusually thick bones. (No joke there. His bones grow thicker and he has to have them shaved down surgically every couple of years)


                      Like me on Facebook at Yellow Duck Racing
                      LB Photography, Apex Custom Coating, Track Graphix, Spears Racing

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Skipper View Post
                        And what a lot of people don't know is between T5 and T6 at Laguna theres a drain system with grates in the ground 5' from the gators. They had the sand bags in FRONT of them since theres heavy erosion there during the rainy season. Dan "No Talent" Kim was going down hard either way. You can see the erosion gullys after where the bags were. Hell his rear tire was already coming off the ground when he hit them. As a lot of people in other forums also are thinking, he wants the money for his little start up and what a better way to try to get it is to sue.

                        Any bets this clown gets black balled now from any trackday org and maybe ever race orgs?

                        I've raced at some sketchy tracks. Been at some where some racers decided NOT to run. Hell raced at Road Atlanta BEFORE they did the safety mods that removed Gravity Cavity and moved some walls back. Hell even Watkins Glen T5 was insanely dangerous before they put the keyhole in. Anyone here, other than me, remember using the Kink itself at Road America before they put the keyhole in for bike? Real fun to lay it over in 4th through there with that dip in the apex with maybe 15' of runoff before the wall. CCS was the last 2 wheeled race org to use it.
                        I think the part where I think he has a case is that I can guarantee those sandbags would be removed, and the erosion fixed before any FIM event, or any large paying event in general. That shows that its a known safety issue that was deemed reasonable for a newb during a trackday but not for world caliber riders. I would also argue that there's a distinct difference between providing adequate runoff and then filling it with obstacles, and having no run off because of space/design constraints. I would agree that if he went wide at Daytona and hit a wall he'd have no case, but the track provides runoff area, and then places sandbags directly in the area that they provided run off...

                        All this being said, the most recent lawsuit against keigwins that caused them to start a Go Fund Me is a different lawsuit that came after the Danny Kim lawsuit. Both were as a result of crashes at Laguna though.

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                        • #13
                          There were 2 lawsuits? I thought they both referred to the Panigale sandbag guy. What was the other one?

                          I did hear somewhere that the fact that they remove the sandbags and rake the gullies flat before major events is going to play a major part in the case.
                          John K - Appleton

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Zaph View Post
                            There were 2 lawsuits? I thought they both referred to the Panigale sandbag guy. What was the other one?

                            I did hear somewhere that the fact that they remove the sandbags and rake the gullies flat before major events is going to play a major part in the case.
                            So I just looked, and keigwins changed the gofundme, I'm assuming because the Danny Kim story is getting more traction. The original one talked about a rider hitting a ditch and then hitting an exposed pipe after they left the bike. Here's an article talking about both of them: http://www.montereycountyweekly.com/...4d56356fe.html

                            Here's an article about the more recent one, which the gofundme originally referenced: http://www.montereycountyweekly.com/...3689ec974.html

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